Your views do seem to be a lot more on the Libertarian side, Cph.

So the workers paying dues, pay him for nothing basically. He laughs about it all the time.

He got the job simply by kissing ass and being a "good union man".

I can't stand that kind of stuff.  I spent a good part of last week working with union guys and it was nothing but misery.  Most of the time was spent sitting around waiting for a union guy to move boxes for me.  They warned me if I touched a box, there would be huge consequences.  There were literally spies hovering around the convention center, making sure only union "workers" were handling equipment.  It's like they were afraid actual competent workers would show them up.  It infuriates me to no end to think of how much they were getting paid and how sloppy of a job they were doing.

Maybe all of us. We live in a country now where all the emphasis is put on me me me. I need new this, I need new that. I have to have the perfect house. I have to have a new car.

So true.

He's a good talker that is in this for a self serving notion.  This is going to be a rough four years….and if it's not.  I'll publicly say that I was wrong.

I hope you're wrong.  He seems very open so far…and a huge supporter of technology as a means of bringing people together.

David, I'm right there with you.

Peanut and I have NO credit cards.  Well, we have one…but it's locked up in the safe.  We believe that we can't afford it, we don't buy it.  It took us a long time to save up for a house.  And we get approved for a loan that would have put us in a nice big house…that a lot of our friends live in.  We choose to buy a house that was what we needed…yes it's small.  Yes it cost a foutune, but was we could afford.  Not more than we could afford so we could, "keep up with the Jones'."

I agree, it pisses me off to no end to see people complain that they have too many bills. 

Well, maybe if you didn't put everything on 15 different credit cards….it wouldn't be a problem.

If I want a large ticket item, I use a lay-a-way system, or I save for it…

I bought one thing on credit in the last two years…and that was our TV.  The one before crapped out…I didn't have enough saved up…I opened a card at the store, bought the TV on the 12 month same as cash plan…paid it off in three months. 

I just don't like things over our heads.

David's right, do what you can, not what you want.  We want to go out to eat…then we figure out what we're going to do without that week.  We make choices…but we don't do both.

The easiest way to save money is to get on a written budget each month, and stick to it.  My wife and I honestly felt like we got a raise when we started a written budget.  It's amazing how much more money you have when you are telling it where to go, rather than it flying out of your pockets.

And paying cash makes a huge difference too.  Studies have shown that the average person spends 18% when making a purchase with debit card or credit cards at a department store.  That goes up to 67% more when using plastic at a fast-food restraurant, and over 200% more when using plastic in a vending machine.  Parting with cash "hurts" a lot more than using even your debit card.

And C-pher nailed it…don't charge anything.  You can't pay cash for it, you can't afford it.  There are exceptions like the one he cited, but really, everyone should work to have an emergency fund of at least $1000 if at all possible.  That's the first step to getting debt free.

My wife and I started our "Total Money Makeover" about 9 months ago, and it has changed our lives.  Dave Ramsey (nationally syndicated radio show host) has written several books about being debt free and living on less than you make.  After reading the book, we were in.  The funny thing is, he doesn't tell you anything you don't already know.  It's all common-sense.  But he presents it in a way that you feel like an idiot for not living that way to begin with.

If you want to break the credit cycle, read his book.  You don't have to go on some expensive program - no $19.95 + shipping or anything like that.  In fact, I got the book at the library.  Seriously, if you read it and follow the simple "baby steps" you will see a difference.

http://www.daveramsey.com

We are a cash only family.  NEVER use credit cards, don't believe in them. 

That's how I was raised, that's how my husband was raised.

We live a pretty good life, go out to nice dinners, concerts, take great vacations, I fly home to MA every few months.  We are very fortunate, and all of it is paid for in CASH. 

When we bought a house, we bought something that fit our needs, NOT what the lenders said we could qualify for.  And we put 20% down like you are supposed to. So our mortgage is less than 1/8 of our monthly income.  Only other bills are utilities, and college tuition for 2 kids.  All 4 cars are owned free and clear.

I don't know how many people I know that have million dollar homes with NO FURNITURE in several rooms because they went all-out for the castle, and now they are house-poor.

In fact, my BIL just bought a million+ home for several hundred thousand less because so many homes in this one neighborhood by us are now bank-owned.

He just low-balled each home until somebody bit.

It amazes me how people treat credit like extra money.  I don't get the concept of paying 18% interest on a big Mac…

That's insane.

OMG…Darlene.  BINGO on the Big MAC.

I know someone who up to their eyeballs in credit card debt and is charging MCDONALDS on their card and paying almost 25%. 

IT IS INSANE.

But hell, if I ran a fast food joint or any retaurant, I'd love people to load up on extra calories and put it on their card.

Sheesh.

Everyone made some great points.

But again, how do we change it?

Not everyone is as smart as us nice folks on the board here….

So how do we change it?

Some people just dont have the common sense you guys are discussing.

My own sister for example. She has a mortgage they took out back in like 1980something and it is at 12%?

Can you beleive that?  They NEVER REFINANCED WHEN RATES WERE LOW.

Why?  My brother in law was lazy and stupid. We begged them to refi. Even had a banker call them and tell them she'd have all the paperwork done…all they had to do was sign.

Nope. Thats a hassle.

Now he is dead. And my sister refuses to get a job as she is living off the insurance money.

And you cannot refi without a job.

We were the opposite…everytime rates dropped…Chip refinanced…to the point that it made me a little nuts…but that's his personality…drove me nuts…but I'm glad he did it… 

He wheels and deals no matter where we go.  We were in Lowe's last year buying a new fridge…he tells the salesperson…"I'll give you 1200."

Who the hell haggles at Lowes? I was mortified.

I walked away because he was embarrassing me…I'll be damned if he didn't get it…plus a hundred dollar gift card.

I think they do it just so he'll go away.

I don't think it's a habit that is easily changed…

Some people… when all they have is $10 to their name… will spend it all and then cry about it…

Others (like a few who posted on here..including myself) would take $10…buy a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter for $5…suck it up and eat peanut butter every day….and save the other $5…

I don't know about you…but I ate A LOT of peanut butter and lipton soup to get to where I am today.

amen to that sister.

And Kraft Dinner as the BNL boys sang….

Wow Darlene, I need to take Chip with me next time I buy a car.  *L* 

I couldn't agree with ya'll more.  After the divorce, I have worked really hard to be debt-free.  (the settlement helped a lot!)

I will never understand the people (and we've all known them) that have $20k in savings and $10k in credit card debt…HELLO…take the $$ out of savings and pay off the cards you fools… 

Who bargans at Lowes?

Who doesn't?  There's nothing anywhere that says that you have to pay what's on the price tag.

If possible, I never pay full price.  When I buy clothes…I'll ask if they can give me 10% off.  You'd be suprised how many stores will do it if you ask.

And like Chip…if you have the cash to do it…many times they will take it if you offer some price.  And let them know…Home Depot is just down the street, and I'll buy there in principal just because Lowes wouldn't cut me a deal.  It's really easy to play the two stores against each other…

Jen…be my guest…car shopping with Chip actually gives me anxiety attacks…

C-pher…you and Chip sound like a match made in heaven!  When we bought our big screen…he brought in a month-old sales circular and told the guy he wanted the TV for that price…

(I did my "whoo-boy" and snuck away…)

They gave him the damn TV…

Gigantic gonads…both of you. ;)

we did that at Best Buy. The prices online were lower than in the store. They said they always do that to get people in the doors and then most dont pay attention to tags at the store.

I am going to start haggling with some of these stores on bigger items.

I hate car shopping. ugh

David…when I bought my TV at Circuit City…I checked the web price every day…they do a lot of one day sales online.

They also will give you 110 percent of the difference from any store if it's lower than them for the first 30 days.  Just difference in the next 30.

They went down twice and Best Buy went down once.

I went in each time and ended up getting about 600 bucks off the TV after it was all said and done.  Not to mention the free extra extended insurance and the price my buddy got a few weeks before just by haggling in the first place.

Right now is the time to haggle with everyone.  CD Places, Clothing stores, electrionics…

Everyone is having a hard time selling stuff, they will do what they can to get it out the door.

Anyway, what's the worst they can say?  NO?