The first one was a HUGE mistake.  I guess we didn't learn from our past.

Now, we have three Execs flying into Washington as was quoted, "With Tin Cups in Hand," on THREE, not one, but THREE private jets asking for money.

I don't think that we need to bail out the big three.  They are working on a business plan from the 20s.  They haven't moved forward with the times…they can't market a product that people want…and the don't have the balls to stand up to the UAW.

WHICH by the way, is the main reason that they are in this situation.

This isn't new, they should have started to change things five years ago when they started to see this happen.

FUCK 'EM.  Let them go under.

People bitch about the 700K jobs that will be lost.  Hell, how many people are thinking about the other 300K or so that are just associated with the Big Three? 

Don't forget about the dealerships, the parts houses, and all the secondary businesses that thrive on them making cars.

Hey, it's going to suck…but they all aren't going to lose their jobs. 

Don't bail them out…let them file for Chapter 11.  Let them re-org…kick out the UAW.  Start fresh.

Take the damn loan from the Oil Industry.  Let them bail out the Big Three.  They are the ones that lobby for less restrictions on emissions and lower MPG.  They are in cahoots together…let them put up the money.

Why should I?  Why must my tax dollars go to a business that can't run themselves?

Why aren't they bailing out the small companies all around that do have good plans…but are closing doors because the economy sucks?  Why?

You know that if they did, they would get turned down.

Bailing out the big three is just going to give them a little longer before they go under…because they will!

Mark your calendar. I agree with you.

I cannot argue with you on that.

Are Honda and Toyota in financial trouble? No.

Nice point…let big oil bail them out. They have record profits to share.

Reorganize. Redo old union contracts and elminate huge pension payouts to past fat cat white collar execs.

Yep, not really disagreeing either.  I think if we try to hard to overcorrect the market it's just going to backfire on us.  Let things equalize on their own, to a degree… things always manage to come back to center. I worry about the individual impact on people/families in terms of job loss, certainly, though. 

Screw redoing Union Contracts.  Get Rid of the Unions Completey.

You want to know why the imports do better…and make more cars that are under 20K?

Because they aren't run by Unions. 

They only way that the US Auto Industry is going to get out from under this is to rid itself from the UAW. 

I'm not informed enough about the UAW to agree or disagree.

The idea of employees having some kind of representation and a unified voice when it comes to working conditions and wages is certainly a good one… however, how that sort of thing is implemented without the union itself becoming an uncontrollable entity… that's the rub.

The labor laws of the US and localities have basically negated the need for Unions of today. 

I agree, back when there wasn't any laws to govern how employees were treated, Unions had a purpose.  Now, however, there are many laws that are in favor of the worker to no longer need Unions stongarming companies to pay for no performance.

As I said…look at the other automakers.  They don't have unions, yet they thrive.  And we're not hearing of employee upheaval there…

The UAW has killed the auto industry.  They need to take some of this blame as well.  The UAW and the execs that didn't have the balls to fight back from the hostage tactics of the Union.

Agreed.  I've long held the belief that unions are a cancer of the American economy.  Unions do not belong in a free market.

It would also help if the American car companies didn't make such a shitty product. 

It would also help if the American car companies didn't make such a shitty product. 

Holy Crap…two things that we agree on?  I'm glad that I'm a registered Democrat…otherwise this could get ugly.  LOL!!

Granted, I've had five Jeeps, and everyone of them has seen just under 200K miles…I had one that almost hit 300K miles…and they all did this with Minimal maintance.

I'm going to have to agree with you again.  Chrysler is an exception to the rule.

>>I'm glad that I'm a registered Democrat

You're a registered Democrat? WTF?

You're a registered Democrat? WTF?

I've been that way for as long as I can remember.  I voted for Clinton…

Though the last few elections, I've voted lib or Republican…but only because they were the lesser of the evils.

I think that Ron Paul would be the best thing to happen to our Country.  But unfortunately, unless in 2013 he's the Republican canidate…he won't get far then either.

Like it or not….we're a two party Country.

Hey, there are things that I like on both sides of the coin.  Why can't that be??  It's just this year, and I know Richard will get me for this one…we voted in a Snake Oil Sales man. 

He's a good talker that is in this for a self serving notion.  This is going to be a rough four years….and if it's not.  I'll publicly say that I was wrong.

I for one hope that a lot of the issues to come up aren't like he said in his speeches. I'm hoping that he will be good for our country.

I hope that his Citizen Police force that's going to be larger than the US Military doesn't happen.  I'm hoping that we don't go into Class Warfare.  I'm hoping that Taxes aren't raised to the levels that he says.  And I hope that he can handle Foreign Policy and hang with the big boys…and not roll over.  I prey that our rights aren't put into bans that serve no purpose showing the world that our Constitution doesn't hold for the US any longer….

Again, this isn't the thread for this.

Yes, I'm registered Democrat.  Laugh all you want…but I am. 

But that was mainly because Independent wasn't an option. :-)

All kidding aside, can't you register as an Independent? 

The best thing that could happen to this country is the FairTax.

Yeah, I like the FairTax idea. I remember when Dean brought it up, it makes SO much sense.

I am all for the dismantling of unions. There time has come and gone.

A friend of mine works for the UAW. He started here in Sheboygan. He makes $ 105,000 a year and the union pays all his car mileage.

But he really does not work. He travels among the region visiting other unions and making sure they are all on the same page.

So the workers paying dues, pay him for nothing basically. He laughs about it all the time.

He got the job simply by kissing ass and being a "good union man".

UGH… I don't even know where I stand on this issue…. it makes me sick to my stomach because, on one side, I firmly believe we shouldn't do the bail out (just like we should not have done it for the banks), but on the other hand, it terrifies me to think of what will happen if something is done/changed…. and this part is purely selfish… I am just thinking about the state of MI and the economy there…. the economy there has been hitting the skids for a long while…. and I know that TONS of people there have some tie to the auto industry….

I guess it just worries me what it might do to my father's small business…..

*sigh*.... I am just waiting for them to put a for sale sign on the MI state line and this would be the clincher…. Tourism and Auto, that is really what drives that state unfortunately….

I'm neutral. Mainly because I don't understand the auto industry enough to comment. I will say that I think American cars are mostly crap, and that I don't think there should be any loopholes for big wigs to make any money out of the ordeal, and I don't think any assistance should be given without a guarantee that the auto industry completely revolutionizes their current process in favor of a green car (whatever technology, it can't be mainly fuel-fed - that just doesn't make sense).

I think we should be spending money beefing up the electrical grid, investing in solar and wind energy, and creating a light rail system to offset the trucking industry and provide for interstate mass transit.

I hate to see American auto go under, but I'd like to hear about the last time they did something RIGHT before I'm inclined to feel sorry for them.

Sadly, many people are going to suffer for this and who is to blame?

Maybe all of us. We live in a country now where all the emphasis is put on me me me. I need new this, I need new that. I have to have the perfect house. I have to have a new car.

And we dont have the money for it. We are living beyond our means.

I remember when Jodi and I were raising three little kids. We never went out to eat. If we did, it was McDonalds and once a week was the limit.

We brown bagged our lunches. We cooked dinner at home. We drank water out of the tap.

We drove shit cars held together with duct tape and mechanics wire.

Today, I go out to dinner and I see young families dropping $ 100 to take the kids to Applebees. WTF?  They are at Target buying $ 400 WII systems and $ 1800 LCD TV's. Put it on the credit card…it'll get paid off.

We played Monopoly and Chutes and Ladders for entertainment. We popped popcorn on Friday night and made a frozen pizza.

Maybe its time to tighten the credit system and send a message that if you dont have the money, start a savings account.

I agree with Mox. We need to invest in infastructure to build a new economy that doesnt revolve around oil.

And maybe, we dont always need to grow. Wouldnt it be something if our population actually dropped and we stopped tearing up forests and farmland for subdivisions? Rebuilt cities and actually made them safe to live in?

I am not saying I am innocent. Today we waste money on tea carts and crap we dont need. But as my dad used to say…I worked my ass off to get where I am and I see young people living beyond their means and they think they have it coming…

But he was raised during THE DEPRESSION. At 81, he still clips coupons.

Maybe we are heading for an economical correction to is going to change all our lifestyles?

<gets off soapbox>

I absolutely agree with you David…. outside of the last few months I have not been one to live on plastic money (lots of unexpected bills lately more than anything) and people my age do frequently live beyond their means…. I don't know… like I said, I am just sorta torn on the whole thing cause of the people I know that will be drasticlly affected by this thing either way….