
BNL Chatter / Archives / Colin Powell completely missed the point
| MiT | Oct 20th 2:37 pm
Before some goofball asks me where I cut and pasted this from, I AUTHORED THIS MYSELF. I do not care where else you may see it. This a one-minute read, but is a five-minute reflection for those of us who still possess the ability to think and act for ourselves. We as common Americans generally are guilty of perceiving Mr. Obama's past and present associations with radical (and even domestic terrorist) individuals and organizations as INSIGNIFICANT. Today, even Colin Powell directly poo-poos the mention of Bill Ayers. We are guilty of moving with the masses and simply blowing these associations off as "Well why would these associations really matter now ?"
He rounds up hundreds of thousands of his supporters… Gets these many thousands of supporters to call all these radio stations and media outlets… And gets this huge number of people to THREATEN THEM to cut off their listenership, sponsorships, and/or tie up their media resources with their own materials. THINK ABOUT THAT MENTALITY, PEOPLE !?!?...
MISTER POWELL - This is not about Obama's name, or his heritage. This is about his friends. His mentors. This is about the UNDENIABLE PROOF of the effect these friends have had on Mr. Obama's own train of thought, his own mentality. People, THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. I know many millions of minds are already made up. But I am pleading with anyone and everyone I've ever been associated with to please consider the mentality of the man our masses are trying so hard to put into office. Further case-in-point : Take an honest look at what the general national media and the celebrity nation are doing for him now ! It is amazing !!! Do YOU WANT TO BE CONSTANTLY BULLIED BY THIS MAN'S HORDE MENTALITY ???!!! Forgive my language, but do YOU want to be a whore of the horde ? I hope not. But to be your OWN individual, capable of making up your OWN individual mind, you must see and recognize this mentality being used in Mr. Obama's entire campaign. If you still wish to place this mentality into the highest office of your country ... To allow our nation to continue to be subjected to this onslaught of what we are obligated to think, and how we are obligated to feel, and where our passion should be directed… Then our nation will be in grave danger of losing that strong, passionate sense of INDIVIDUALITY that gave way to our becoming this great nation in the first place. Think about that. |
| moxie | Oct 21st 1:02 am
I think you've lost your grip on reality… but then again, I'm probably a brainwashed drone. |
| JRB | Oct 21st 2:07 am
MiT, Welcome to fascism…which has always had a liberal or socialist basis…. JRB |
| Jen | Oct 21st 6:26 am
*claps patties* Yay, we're fascists now! Woot! *fist bumps moxie* |
| Jeff E. | Oct 21st 10:16 am
Interesting. So is the whole of Catholicism suspect because the Pope was a Nazi Youth? (Well, it IS suspect, but for different reasons.) Or better yet… is Gov. Palin suspect because her husband belonged to the Alaskan Independence Party? You know, the one who had a prominent figure that made threats against government officials and was actually murdered by another one of his wingnut separatists? Or is John McCain suspect because some of his advisors are former lobbyists… the very kind of political influence peddlers he seems to despise? I won't, of course, go on about his "ties" to Charles Keating… I'll give Mox a turn on that one. :) I once worked with a guy for four years. We weren't best buddies, but we attended work functions and seminars together. We worked on a team to improve the working conditions at the place we worked, and were on more than speaking terms when we passed each other on the street. We were called a "great team" by our coworkers and got mentioned by the president of the company in the same speech at a function. Turns out the guy was a serial child molester. So yes… I am the associated of a serial child molester. I have ties to a serial child molester. Holy shit. Someone call the press! Apples and oranges? Maybe. Maybe not. By all means, take issue with Obama's tax policies. Take issue with his relative lack of experience. Take issue with his stance on the things you are against. But seriously… this whole "guilt by association" thing isn't worthy of anyone who possesses enough intelligence to actually research the claims of either side. You're accusing Obama supporters of drinking the Kool-Aid. You might want to check those red stains on your t-shirt, dude. re: fascism. Yeah, that Hitler. Such a liberal! He was really just trying to offer the Jews free housing and health care, right? |
| JRB | Oct 21st 12:53 pm
Jeff, ACtually Hitler, as well as Mussolini, were both socialists…Hitler started the National Socialist party..NAZIs…Mussolini started a similar party in Italy..everything was run by the State…everything was controlled by The State, for the good of the whole… So yes, he was a liberal..and a fascist. JRB
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| MiT | Oct 21st 6:07 pm
Catholics, Nazis, Lobbyists ? No need to delve into all of those tangents. It's much more simple than that. It isn't the association that makes Obama guilty of anything. It's the behavior he's exhibited SHOWING that he really did take real, tangible lessons from these mentors. And the irony in Obama's censorship by threat is NOT difficult to comprehend. You're not a drone if you have made your decisions due to your own reasoning. You (Moxie) are a pretty philosophical person, so it's a pretty easy implication that you support a platform rather than riding a wave. My second point simply implicates the CONCEPT of the wave. The finished product: |
| MiT | Oct 21st 6:08 pm
This a one-minute read, but is a five-minute reflection for those of us who still possess the ability to think and act for ourselves. |
| MiT | Oct 21st 6:17 pm
Wonder why it didn't space itself out. This a one-minute read, but is a five-minute reflection for those of us who still possess the ability to think and act for ourselves. You might very well find yourself actually stepping back and saying "WOW, he makes a good point." |
| MiT | Oct 21st 6:22 pm
hmmm…..still no spacing after inserting it. even the bbcode doesn't work. Must be due to pulling it off of another politics board I posted it on. No matter. Points were already made. I simply cleaned them up a bit more and added some support. |
| moxie | Oct 21st 6:25 pm
I really, really, REALLY think you're overanalyzing Obama's response to the attacks. People who are guilty of something generally overreact. Obama has practically ignored most of the accusations thrown his way. The only time he himself has responded has been in the middle of the third debate when the only way out of the problem was through the problem. I'm an Obama supporter and I receive practically every outreach support email he's ever sent. I've NEVER been asked to contact the media or threaten anyone to support Obama. I've been asked to make phone calls in his support, to request that other people support his campaign, but I've never seen any evidence to support him trying to suppress the media or otherwise manipulate information. I would go to whatever sources that are feeding you this information and question the integrity of it. Snopes.com is a good place to start. barackobama.com is another good place to find out information about Barack. I really don't think we can possibly be talking about the same man. He's not about to end democracy or freedom or American values or whatever… WORST case scenario he'll be a Jimmy Carter. BEST case scenario he'll be an FDR. I'll take a Jimmy Carter over watching Palin start a third world war with Russia and China, which she would no doubt do (accidentally, of course). |
| MiT | Oct 21st 8:57 pm
Oh, I don't see the end of American society as we know it should Obama get elected. I simply see no end to Obama's continued bombardment on the lives and minds of our entire society. I see maybe a bit of Jimmy Carter, but I truly see Truman. Obama's employing thousands of callers to censor media outlets from allowing discussion of his friends and mentors is VERY akin to Truman's Loyalty Reviews. Any tiny piece of information (whether real or fabricated) found on any Federal Employee at any level that could even remotely implicate that employee of disloyalty to Truman and his policies (and therefore to one's own country) was grounds for immediate dismissal. And EVERYONE was subject to immediate and full investigation of their offices, their homes, their families, their finances, every facet of their lives if Truman had any suspicion of dissention.
There is plenty of information that supports Obama's behavior. His very campaign supports a wave, or horde, mentality. The fact that these allegations have not been publicly researched out, and nationally supported or refuted (on one or more of our MAJOR news networks) even supports such mentality and tactic. Look at World History as it relates to other figureheads who had this kind of overwhelming support from those capable of spreading it, complimenting and strengthening it, and building on it. Some were very constructive to World History. But many more were extremely destructive, even when they felt they had the true good of their people at heart. I'm not saying things will go there. I'm saying "just consider what you are doing before you simply go along." What happens if you want to get off of that ride, but no one will slow it down enough for you to do so ? You would think there would be a huge proven denial of Obama's using telephone shock and awe to suppress discussion permeating through all of our major networks. But no. All you see is quiet suppression and submission. Going along to get along because the other networks are doing it. The overwhelming bubbliness is nauseating. And worthy of serious consideration and caution. |
| moxie | Oct 22nd 1:33 am
Mike, WHERE are you getting information re: Obama's supporters calling the media and threatening them. Is it POSSIBLE that you're freaking out over nothing? And that whoever wins the presidency will force the American people to listen to their crap? If McCain wins we'll all be subject to the tyranny of his whims… whatever gruff annoyance he decides to present us with from moment to moment. Look, you don't like Obama, I get it. I don't like McCain. But what you're writing mostly doesn't make sense. I'm trying to find the sense in it and I just don't get it. The press is talking about Obama and he's ahead in the polls because McCain made the decision early on to batten down his conservative base rather than reach out to the independents and the centrists. Obama acts more presidential, he has a more even temperament, his record of voting with the current administration is pretty much never, he has written two books that lay out who he is and what he's made of fairly adequately, he has a record of fighting for the underdog, he's - without argument - more knowledgeable about how to handle issues with the economy, and he has no problems reaching across party lines. No one is making up the facts. Even among the set of people voting for McCain, people think that Obama has a better temperament for the job. They find him more likeable. A hundred people at phone banks aren't making a difference, it's the way he presents himself. I await the information that you have to offer that will support #2 & #3 of your previous statements. I know for a fact that the Obama campaign asks their supporters to call undecided voters. They do NOT ask supporters to call the media. They do NOT ask supporters to threaten the media. I'm sure that there are other parties - moveon.org, possibly? That has requested something similar, but they are unrelated to Obama's campaign team. Suppression??? SERIOUSLY??? If anything, Obama reminds me of Ghandi. He just lets people attack him without striking back. He assumes that the American people have the intelligence to differentiate fact from fiction. And the truth is that a LOT of powerful people associate themselves with Ayers. The truth is the Clintons associated themselves with Rev Wright. The truth is that Acorn has very little to do with Obama, and he certainly can't be held directly responsible for their mistakes/and or intentional deception. He does not run Acorn and he did not found Acorn. He may have supported Acorn, but that's NOTHING compared to McCain's relationship with Keating in the largest savings and loan scandal ever. Not to mention the fact that the majority of the electronic voting machines are Diebold, a company primarily owned and run by Republicans. "Analysis of the machine, in light of real election procedures, shows that it is vulnerable to extremely serious attacks. For example, an attacker who gets physical access to a machine or its removable memory card for as little as one minute could install malicious code; malicious code on a machine could steal votes undetectably, modifying all records, logs, and counters to be consistent with the fraudulent vote count it creates." http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/ Until you give me hard, proven facts that Obama's doing anything that you say he's doing, I don't think it's worth any additional discussion or merit. |
| moxie | Oct 22nd 9:47 am
OH… and do I even need to talk about John McCain's use of ROBOCALLS??? Pre-recorded smear tactics that he once accused Bush below the belt… Aren't you even slightly afraid of John McCain's flip-flopping? Are you even slightly concerned that he was involved in the largest savings and loan scandal ever - which is the closest equivalent to the current mortgage crisis as we have to date? I'd have called him a maverick 8 years ago when he ran against Bush. I'd have voted for him 8 years ago against Gore. I'd never, ever vote for him now, primarily because of Palin and her complete incompetence. I think John McCain is a hero, absolutely. But I don't think that he has any business becoming the president. |
| moxie | Oct 22nd 9:49 am
I should revise the previous post and say that I would've voted for him 8 years ago if I hadn't known about the Keatings S&L;mess. |
| MiT | Oct 22nd 1:52 pm
details about Ayers and their relationship:
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| MiT | Oct 22nd 1:54 pm
THE NEW YORK TIMES |
| MiT | Oct 22nd 2:00 pm
I suck at this. Suppression: Obama campaign confronts WGN radio by John McCormick and Steve Schmadeke, updated DENVER -- Sen. Barack Obama's campaign organized its supporters Wednesday night to confront Tribune-owned WGN-AM in Chicago for having a critic of the Illinois Democrat on its air. "WGN radio is giving right-wing hatchet man Stanley Kurtz a forum to air his baseless, fear-mongering terrorist smears," Obama's campaign wrote in an e-mail to supporters. "He's currently scheduled to spend a solid two-hour block from 9:00 to 11:00 p.m. pushing lies, distortions, and manipulations about Barack and University of Illinois professor William Ayers." Kurtz, a conservative writer, recently wrote an article for the National Review that looked at Obama's ties to Ayers, a former 1960s radical who later emerged as a school reform advocate in Chicago. The magazine had been blocked in its initial attempts to obtain records from the University of Illinois at Chicago regarding a school reform initiative called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Obama chaired and Ayers co-founded. Obama critics were quick to suggest that political clout could be involved in seeking to protect Obama from embarrassment. The school later reserved its position and made the records available Tuesday. On Wednesday evening, Obama's campaign urged supporters to call the radio station to complain. "Tell WGN that by providing Kurtz with airtime, they are legitimizing baseless attacks from a smear-merchant and lowering the standards of political discourse," the note said. "It is absolutely unacceptable that WGN would give a slimy character assassin like Kurtz time for his divisive, destructive ranting on our public airwaves," the note continued. "At the very least, they should offer sane, honest rebuttal to every one of Kurtz's lies." Zack Christenson, executive producer of "Extension 720 with Milt Rosenburg," said the response was strong. "I would say this is the biggest response we've ever got from a campaign or a candidate," he said. "This is really unprecedented with the show, the way that people are flooding the calls and our email boxes." Christenson said the Obama campaign was asked to have someone appear on the show and declined the request. "He got into the files just yesterday, so we wanted to have him on to find out what he found. And, if at all possible, we wanted to get the Obama campaign, to get their side of the story," Christenson said. "That's why the uproar is kind of amazing, because we wanted the Obama campaign's take as well." The show's producer said the calls dropped off after the show's first hour. He did not have a count of calls, but said it was "non-stop." Obama's campaign has launched similar offensives against stations that have run campaign ads that it did not like. |
| MiT | Oct 22nd 2:04 pm
The problem of Barack Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers will not go away. Ayers and his wife, Bernardine Dohrn were terrorists for the notorious Weather Underground during the turbulent 1960s, turning fugitive when a bomb — designed to kill army officers in New Jersey — accidentally exploded in a New York townhouse. Prior to that, Ayers and his cohorts succeeded in bombing the Pentagon. Ayers and Dohrn remain unrepentant for their terrorist past. Ayers was pictured in a 2001 article for Chicago magazine, stomping on an American flag, and told the New York Times just before 9/11 that the notion of the United States as a just and fair and decent place “makes me want to puke.” Although Obama actually launched his political career at an event at Ayers’s and Dohrn’s home, Obama has dismissed Ayers as just “a guy who lives in my neighborhood,” and “not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis.” For his part, Ayers refuses to discuss his relationship with Obama. |
| MiT | Oct 22nd 2:06 pm
Although the press has been notably lax about pursuing the matter, the full story of the Obama-Ayers relationship calls the truth of Obama’s account seriously into question. When Obama made his first run for political office, articles in both the Chicago Defender and the Hyde Park Herald featured among his qualifications his position as chairman of the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a foundation where Ayers was a founder and guiding force. Obama assumed the Annenberg board chairmanship only months before his first run for office, and almost certainly received the job at the behest of Bill Ayers. During Obama’s time as Annenberg board chairman, Ayers’s own education projects received substantial funding. Indeed, during its first year, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge struggled with significant concerns about possible conflicts of interest. With a writ to aid Chicago’s public schools, the Annenberg challenge played a deeply political role in Chicago’s education wars, and as Annenberg board chairman, Obama clearly aligned himself with Ayers’s radical views on education issues. With Obama heading up the board and Ayers heading up the other key operating body of the Annenberg Challenge, the two would necessarily have had a close working relationship for years (therefore “exchanging ideas on a regular basis”). So when Ayers and Dorhn hosted that kickoff for the first Obama campaign, it was not a random happenstance, but merely further evidence of a close and ongoing political partnership. Of course, all of this clearly contradicts Obama’s dismissal of the significance of his relationship with Ayers. This much we know from the public record, but a large cache of documents housed in the Richard J. Daley Library at the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC), is likely to flesh out the story. That document cache contains the internal files of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. The records in question are extensive, consisting of 132 boxes, containing 947 file folders, a total of about 70 linear feet of material. Not only would these files illuminate the working relationship between Obama and Bill Ayers, they would also provide significant insight into a web of ties linking Obama to various radical organizations, including Obama-approved foundation gifts to political allies. Obama’s leadership style and abilities are also sure to be illuminated by the documents in question. |