http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008112632_swingersclub14m.html

what do you think?  Should the city have closed them down?

mmmm…. I look at it more of a cease action type thing…. I mean, really, were they really making any money? No…. I mean, if you had that many people going through, it would be polite to give some cash for clean up (like the laundry expenses that were mentioned)

I think that the main problem was noise violations and the kids seeing/hearing things…. which I totally do NOT think should happen….

but at the same time, I don't think it was a business so I don't think they should be fined under that city ordinance…. if anything it should be public displays of nudity and noise violations…..

I guess what I am saying is, no… they should not be shut down but they should have to take the neighbors more into consideration and if they don't, they should have to pay the fines that go along with that (the nudity and noise).

Peggy…your life is never dull…is it?  ;)

*covers eyes*

Dan said that there was an issue with the private club/residence thing.  The city didn't like the idea that they were running a club out of their residence - however, the article didn't mention this at all.

The one thing about swingers clubs and nude beaches, etc - the people aren't generally pretty.

yeah, not usually….. but still, I am not seeing this as a business issue…. rather, as a noise and public nudity issue

I think the city is using the "business" thing to shut them down.  However, they should be in trouble for, as tj said, the noise and public nudity.  I know if the parking is as bad as the article states, I would have a major issue if I lived there.  If they want to be naked in the backyard, they (the home-owners) should do whatever is necessary to make sure their backyard is completely private and unable to be seen by the neighbors.

I, personally, don't have an issue if people want to be having those kind of parties.  To each his own.  BUT, you have to be respectful of the neighbors.

I don't give a shit what people do in their private lives, more power to 'em… but this is unfair to the neighbors and it's illegal -- they ARE essentially operating a business, and I doubt they're paying taxes on that income. 

Speaking of swinging… anyone watch Swingtown on CBS?  It's trash tv but I have to admit that Nathan and I are hooked. LOL. 

Jen, and I am just playing devil's advocate here, why do you look at it as a business…. they never stated that they started this club as a means to any kind of sustainable income…. and I think, from the sounds of it, that the money they make would be far less than what they shell out when you break it down…. especially since they clearly state that it is based on donations and they do not have any kind of admittance fees…..

I mean, think about it, the linens (bedding, towels etc etc), food, condoms (my understanding of these parties/ clubs is that there are often some form of condoms available for the folks that run out/ don't have their own…. although I could be wrong on that), drinks and the cost of clean up supplies afterwards….. and those are just the things I can think of….

*shrugs* I mean, I don't know, but it just doesn't seem like a wise business practice to rely soley on donations you know????? I think if they had charged an admittance fee it would be different.

tj, to me it sounded like (and we'll never know without seeing the books) that the word "donation" was used as a way around truly charging a fee. The idea that on ladies night men were "regular rate" and ladies were "pop or beverage donation" makes it sound an awful lot like a fee. Maybe they broke even, maybe they made a profit. I'm not entirely sure.  And really I think that's a secondary issue after the issue of disrupting the neighbors.  It sounds like they tried to be courteous and think about this ahead of time but the gatherings got so big and frequent that it sort of outgrew itself. 

and I agree whole heartedly that the main issue is the neighbors having their daily life disrupted…. and I do see what you are saying on regards to the rest of the stuff, I guess I just didn't think of that when I first read the article.

Yes, the men have to pay like $10 or something when they go in, and women don't necessarily have to pay.  I know that for me, personally I sort of have a bitter taste in my mouth regarding the "lifestyle," but that's just a personal thing for me.  I am sure these are wonderful, considerate people - but it just seems so wrong to bring all this into a neighborhood.  I know that there is another place that's in an office park where they have a dance floor and each of the cubicles in the office space contains a bed.  At least THAT wouldn't necessarily be infringing on the neighbors, etc.

Speaking of swinging… anyone watch Swingtown on CBS?  It's trash tv but I have to admit that Nathan and I are hooked. LOL.

So Jen…you're interested in swinging, eh?

Jen, you and Nathan would be the best looking people at these parties if you were interested in that!

I'd go to that kind of party.

Oh, wait you need a partner to swing right?

Yeah, I guess if I went alone I'd just look like slutty.

Nah, you don't need a partner, but I think you are entirely too pretty to be able to attend one of these things.

My question is this:  How come people at these kinds of events - and nudists are the LAST people you want to see naked and the LAST people you'd want to have sex with?

You're telling me. When I worked for the census bureau I had to go to a nudist colony to check up on a mistake one of our enumerators made. Ok, I could have easily fixed the mistake in the office, but I wanted to go check it out in person. I saw a handful of people naked, and I regret that. Never thought I would say those words, but it was that bad.

Wait, I'd be the prettiest boy at the party? That would be a first for me. Where do I sign up?

Too funny.  We actually have a pair of friends up here into the swinging thing, and frankly… they're both hot.  She looks like a French supermodel, and he's nothing i'd kick out of bed, either.  I suppose there's all types in this whole thing, not all are attractive but I imagine that some are, too. 

Maybe just the Seattle-area parties cater to the ugly ones!